Tag Archive: new player


On Trading

I am an old fogey.  This means I was there when Elite was first released on tape and I was one of those kids who played forever to grind myself all the way to Elite status.  One of the beautiful things about Elite was that you could get involved in trading.  Although this was on a small scale and it was fairly predictable.  You just flew from one type of planet to another trading what you ‘knew’ they would need.

The materials needed to build a Maelstrom.

Fast forward to Eve around 30 years later and it is quite a different story.  Market trading in Eve is so much more dynamic.  Prices fluctuate with a fluidity and on a scale that no other game can compare to.  I have seen many MMO markets and the truth is nothing comes even close to the degree of sophistication and complexity of the market in Eve.  I have spend a few weeks looking at this and I am pretty sure I am only scratching the surface.  In fact I know I am.

Lets try a summary. First of all there are thirteen categories (Ammunition and Charges, Apparel, Blueprints, Drones, Implants and Boosters, Manufacture and Research, Planetary Infrastructure, Ship Equipment, Ship Modifications, Ships, Skills, Starbase & Sovereignty Structures and Trade good).  Each of these break down into further sub categories for example there are nine types of ship some of these are split into three and four sub types all with different race variants and in some instances other types such as ORE Industrial ships.  Then go to modules for ships and it gets more complicated – some ships have multiple slots that can be filled with different load outs.  If you do a search on Eve Central there are 5,823 items that can be bought or sold on the market.

Then it gets even more complex.  Minerals can be mined, they can also be re-processed from ship components.  These can then be combined to build ships.  It goes on.  To build ships players can build basic ships from things called blue prints. Tech II and Tech III ships are built from Blueprints that are invented, dropped or rewarded from Non Player Corporations.  Some Tech II ships are built from BPO’s but CCP stopped something that was once known as the lottery and has made the thing even more player led by enabling players to invent their own BPC’s.  I could go on.  Just take the Maelstrom it says that you will need the materials that are in the image above.

The Deimos blueprint.

Tech II ships need to have Tech II components some of which cannot be made anywhere but within Player Owned structures.  The second image to the right is a good summary of what you would need to build a Deimos.  To me the complexity of this way outstrips anything that I have ever seen before. So you have that level of complexity embedded within the game.  Most of the high tech components need material that is mined from specific moons which of course is what the big 0.0 alliances fight over.  There really is no other way to put it other than this is the engine of Eve.  Its the thing that keeps it going.

But it only keeps it going because the economy has the same structure as any other real economy.  Basically the engine driving the economy in Eve is that each of these items cascades down into the status of a consumer good.  Players engage in combat, they take risks with their ships and they loose them.  Because of this the economy of Eve just like our own world economy reproduces itself.  The term used in some circles is it is ‘autopoietic’ – but enough of that guff.  That is an achievement you have to respect.

Ok so now we have a very basic description of the achievement of the Eve economy.  There is a lot of money to be made in trading. Traders make most of their profits – by the looks of things in quite a few ways.  Players place buy orders using their skills – from region wide to 20 jumps wide.  They then collect those items or goods and trade them to market hubs.  Others are obviously buying items at really low levels and reprocessing them for minerals and then selling those.  Others are trading from low sec to high sec.

What did I do?

I jumped into a ship and started to work on a route from Jita to Dodixie.  I traded in anything that was going to be profitable from Carbon, Nocxium, Ferrogel, Viral agents to Mechanical parts.  In one afternoon I had made around 70million ISK just by being careful about my purchases.  But there were times when I got stung.  The margin was so close at times that the trade tax killed the profit and meant I actually lost out.  So buying and transporting goods in the way was not as secure as Elite.  There were no guarantees at all that it would work and often you could lose ISK.  One way to minimise the risk is to trade with two Alts, one at each location to make sure you are always more or less guaranteed a profit.  But that seems like cheating to me.  I made quite a bit of ISK by eliminating the risk but in the end by eliminating the risk it was less of a game and more like messing around with spreadsheets.  And yes I have read that a criticism of Eve is that it is like “Spreadsheets online”.

Conclusions

There are several criticisms you could make about trading in Eve.

  1. It seems a blatant contradiction in this super futuristic Universe where you can travel through worm holes that the basic communication technology to tell you what the prices are across regions doesn’t exist.  The very fact you really need out of game tools and the fact that you have to have Alts is a failure of game mechanics in my view.
  2. Once you remove the risk it is simply a non-event.  Surely there should be some degree of risk in the game?  I have seen a few people get ganked in high sec.  But the risk is very low.  By eliminating the risk of trading for me the game became less a game and more an ISK accumulation system.
  3. It just seems so boring.

Finally,  after doing all of this and even training a few skills I began to become really really bored with the game again. Things have to change.  So I have decided it is time to stop dicking about and have a look at PvP.

The great thing about Eve, possibly its biggest strength, is that you can escape having to grind missions quite early in the game.  Rather than waffle on about the game I am going to get straight to the point.  The aim of this guide is purely to help a new player get into salvaging.  With minimum fuss.

For the full set of abilities you will need approximately 15 million ISK (Prices may vary according to region).

The following are the ways you can get involved in salvaging associated with these methods I have given a very basic rig setup for each style.

Approaches to salvaging.

There are a number of ways to approach salvaging. The first thing you ought to do is join the “Free Wrecks” channel in game.  The channel is very friendly and a lot of the people there the channel is modded by Lady Aja, Riozuil, Sturmwolke, and Alex Kariik.  Pop in there and let people know who you are and be prepared to travel to get access to those wrecks.

a) Consensual Salvaging

This seems to be the most profitable method but it can be hit and miss because not everyone wants to share salvage. In one evening you can be confident in getting around 25-35 million ISK by simply talking to people and asking if anyone wants a salvager to come along to the pocket.  Basically post something like “Salvager looking for salvage.  Will negotiate a good split on mods and salvage, please convo me for details.”  A few tips:

  • Make sure your CSPA Charges are set to zero – there is nothing more off putting when someone has to pay to talk to you.
  • Think about the conversation, this is a client and you want to be useful to them.  Being useful means finding out what they want and making sure you give them more.  You want them to ask you again don’t you?  So follow their instructions and be friendly.
  • Don’t go demanding things from them after all you are their guest.
  • Join their fleet, if they ask you not to take loot or to give them big guns, or the mission tags do it.
  • Make sure that whatever the split you decided to give them a good deal and you stick to your word.
  • Ask if you can add them to your watch list, if they agree add them and make a list of clients.  The idea is you want repeat business.
  • Buy a station container for their loot, put everything into it and contract it to them after you have finished.

This is a good way to get to know players.  Its a nice entry into the game and you can be earning good money very quickly with minimal fuss and at a reasonable cost.  Another thing.  The risk is very low so you will find that whilst there might be better places to make isk those will carry a much higher risk.  Your immediate ISK problems will be more or less solved.

There is another way to salvage without having to find pockets.  Take yourself off to a COSMOS exploration site located in the Deltole system of the Algintal constellation.  In there you will find spaces full of wrecks.  They will all be yellow and the down side will be that there will be red ships in them as well.  This can make salvaging tricky, with this setup I had to warp in and out a lot and I ended up getting a lot less ISK for the time I had to spend messing around with warping in and out.  So although you can get wrecks by roaming these pockets – you will need to come up with a different type of setup to what I have here.  This setup is a very light fit.

Basic Salvaging rig

Thrasher (Ship) 670,000 ISK

  • Small Tractor Beam I 1,089,000 ISK
  • Small Tractor Beam I 1,089,000 ISK
  • Small Tractor Beam I 1,089,000 ISK
  • Small Tractor Beam I 1,089,000 ISK
  • Salvager I 33,000 ISK
  • Salvager I 33,000 ISK
  • Salvager I 33,000 ISK
  • Salvager I 33,000 ISK
  • 1MN Afterburner I 5,000 ISK
  • Small shield extender II 669,000
  • [Empty Med slot]
  • Expanded Cargo Hold I 1,394 ISK
  • Expanded Cargo Hold I 1,394 ISK
  • Small Salvage Tackle I 820,000 ISK
  • Small Salvage Tackle I 820,000 ISK

Ship Total 7,474,788  ISK

Skills

  • Afterburner 44,000 ISK
  • Armor Rigging 90,000 ISK
  • Destroyers 90,000 ISK
  • Electronics 18,000 ISK
  • Engineering 18,000 ISK
  • Hull Upgrades 54,000 ISK
  • Jury Rigging 54,000 ISK
  • Mechanics 18,000 ISK
  • Minmatar Frigate 36,000 ISK
  • Navigation 24,000 ISK
  • Science 28,000 ISK
  • Survey 32,000 ISK
  • Shield Upgrades 75,000 ISK
  • Salvaging 200,000 ISK

Total Skills = 781,000 ISK

TOTAL = 8,255,788 ISK Total (subject to regional variation).

b) Non-consensual or ninja salvaging

Now this is something I have been forced to do on a quiet night.  Here you will need to be good at scanning.  I am not going to write about that here because there are lots of good tutorials out there.  Especially on uTube.   So get familiar with scanning and especially combat scanning.  It can be hit and miss so a lot of practice would not go amiss!  The point is this you want to find battleships in pockets with large wrecks.  So using the scanning skills is really important.  Find the pocket and then you are in. Here are a few tips you might find useful.

  • Insure your ship!
  • When you enter the pocket always open a conversation with the mission runner and offer a deal.  It is by far more efficient and much more profitable to do salvaging by consensus.
  • Be prepared for them to either ignore you or to become unpleasant.  Many mission runners love their salvage and loot. They will hate you for going into ‘their’ pocket.  Going into the pocket AND salvaging is however a perfectly legal thing to do in game.  So if they get rude simply say that and get busy.
  • It always makes sense to be co-operative but if they decide not to then you can just ignore them and get on with it.  But always offer a deal.  I have managed to persuade quite a few to eventually just work with me.  I always give them a good split
  • Looting is illegal.  That is taking anything out of the wrecks.
  • Do not  loot wrecks that are yellow not even if the mission runner you are with is friendly.  You cannot trust anyone in eve.  You will be flagged and they can shoot you.
  • If they are pissed off – go for large wrecks first then smaller wrecks.
  • In some ways you want to emphasise that salvaging by consensus is better so make sure that if they don’t agree that you work hard and get everything done quickly.  Maybe they might co-operate more in future.  Do you get the idea?
That is it basically.  Its quite simple and for a new player it is a really quick way of a) meeting people, b) getting ISK relatively quickly, c) learning some useful skills such as scanning.

Scanning Rig [Probe, Probe fit] Ship 237,000 ISK

  • Expanded Probe Launcher I 19,999 ISK
  • Prototype Cloaking Device I 1,400,000 ISK
  • 1MN Afterburner I 6,000 ISK
  • [Empty Med slot]
  • Photonic CPU Enhancer I 250,000 ISK
  • Photonic CPU Enhancer I 250,000 ISK
  • Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I 69,000 ISK
  • Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I 69,000 ISK

Scanning Rig Total = 2,300,999 Million ISK

Ninja Salvaging Skills Scanning
  • Astrometric Acquisition 405,000 ISK
  • Astrometric Pinpointing 405,000 ISK
  • Astrometric Rangefinding 405,000 ISK
  • Cloaking  3,150,000 ISK
  • Electronics upgrades 297,000 ISK
Scanning Rig Skills = 4,662,000 Million ISK
Scanning Rig Total including skills = 6,962,999 Million ISK
Acknowledgement: Thanks to Kristina Lynn for helpful comments on the first draft of this guide. Likewise  Keno Skir and Sun’Mar Raholan for their helpful advice on the Eveo forums.  Also big thanks to the people in charge of ‘Free Wrecks’ channel in game Lady Aja, Riozuil, Sturmwolke, and Alex Kariik. This guide owes everything to them and the clients I now have.

Looking at Corporations

After the failure of running level II missions it was time to have a look around to see what other player based corporations are out there.  I had a quick browse on the eve forums – Corporations and Alliance Discussion is full of trolls and short posts so no info there.  Then had a look under “Crime and Punishment” some funny stuff in there but once again lots of trolling. So no real info.  The only thing I noticed were a couple of funny posts from The Black Rebel Rifter Club [R1FTA] and another thread with someone blowing his own horn about the size of his multiboxing stack – 20 computers.  I liked The Black Rifter Club’s style so looked them up in game and found they had possibly the funniest MOTD’s in their channel that I have  had seen so far.

Another search I did was for a corporation in game that might suit.  One Corporation that caught my I was the “Tweety Birds of Terror” which at least had a good sense of fun about it.  So I popped into their channel and started chatting with them.  I got a few more cool tips and learned some more stuff about the game UI like how to drag and drop a ship fit into the chat channel.  Handy stuff that!  So I am hanging out there and in “The Autocannon” with the The Black Rebel Rifter Club – I don’t think they will invite me in though as I can barely find the right end of the ship to steer from at the moment.

My other problem was I had to head off for six days and hence the silence on this site (apologies) I was going to post from my mobile but you know how this time of year is what with getting drunk and messing around? So now I am back and the cool thing I have now good is all the skills for the certificate “Passive Shield Tanking – Standard”.  Time in increase my DPS in this Rifter!